Calving conundrum

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6 years 5 months ago #536332 by Rokker
Replied by Rokker on topic Calving conundrum
Oh for goodness sake, Ruth. It was born "early in the morning". No time given - it could have been 1 or 2 a.m. for all you know! When they found it "it was still wet and slippery". Again, no time period stated as to how long between the time of birth to when they found it. But whatever time frame it was - it was obviously long enough for the calf to suffer excessive cold in the wind, which was the obvious problem from the conditions and symptoms given.

But, oh well - whatever. It's past my bed time!

Do NOT cross this paddock! ... Unless you can do it in 9 seconds, 'cos the bull can do it in 10!

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6 years 5 months ago - 6 years 5 months ago #536333 by Stikkibeek
Replied by Stikkibeek on topic Calving conundrum
This is the data on his sire. Apparently a bull that is liked as he is an outcross for the Manhatten bloodlines of many other AI bulls in NZ. Looking at the daughter pictures, I can see why he might have looked skinny at birth. Doddy

Hypothermia is the most logical answer to what prevented him progressing initially

Yes mother is a quality jersey. Rokker, if you ever come up this way I'd appreciate an appraisal of my cow. An agent was here the other day looking at my bull from last year. He said her first calf was the best quality bull he had ever seen. Considering he's A2A2, it's a pity there has been little interest in him. I'd just hate to send him to the works at 14 months.

Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S
Last edit: 6 years 5 months ago by Stikkibeek.

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6 years 5 months ago #536337 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic Calving conundrum

Rokker wrote: ...But, oh well - whatever. It's past my bed time!

Yes, obviously. I hope you had a good night. :lol: :silly: :evil:

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6 years 5 months ago #536350 by Rokker
Replied by Rokker on topic Calving conundrum
It would be great to have a look at your Jersey cow, Stikki - I'll let you know when we do the Auckland trip next. She certainly produces nice offspring.

The whole A2A2 scene is rather puzzling at the moment. We keep hearing reports about the increasing demand for A2A2 milk, and Semex keep pushing the notion in their newsletters, yet we still haven't seen any significant rise in demand for recorded A2A2 bulls from the clients we sell to. We had around 20% of this season's mob sired by Semex A2A2 bulls in anticipation of a greater demand than last year, but it just didn't happen. Go figure. Farmers are still far more interested in traits that increase the dollar value in the vat more than anything else.

If you're able to carry your A2A2 bull through to this time next year as a 2-year-old you might find more interest in him.

Do NOT cross this paddock! ... Unless you can do it in 9 seconds, 'cos the bull can do it in 10!

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6 years 5 months ago #536351 by Stikkibeek
Replied by Stikkibeek on topic Calving conundrum

Rokker wrote:
If you're able to carry your A2A2 bull through to this time next year as a 2-year-old you might find more interest in him.


And therein lies the problem. My brother borrowed him (without actually asking me) and had him running for the last few weeks with his own cow who was hard to get in calf via AI, and he hopes to get her back in calf to my bull early and on sell her as a springing milker. Well the idea might have had some merit, but Fergy had been quietly grazing with some steers of similar age and apart from getting a bit stirred up, when neighbours put their heifers next to the paddock he was in, he was biddable and relatively quiet. Brother decided he couldn't run him any longer and today he came back. The bull got very worked up over a pile of dirt inside the access paddock and OH had to shift him from there with the gator. He has a heifer, (which I was contemplating putting AI Ayrshire over but a nice jersey will suffice,) for company but has spent the whole day growling at the steers that he used to be mates with. Shifting him around has certainly upset his placid demeanor. We don't have the facilities to keep him until 2yo so he has to go. Someone else might get the advantage of such a nice bull. I certainly don't want the works option just because some prat messed around saying yes he'd take him and then, pulled out when it was getting too late for him to be of interest to someone else.

Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S

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6 years 5 months ago #536473 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic Calving conundrum
Just entering the temperature discussion it was my understanding from losing one of our cows earlier this season that once body temps get below 35.?? there is no hope of return (at least that is what the visiting vet said when she was called out to said cow) and we had no choice but to shoot her. Hooves had started to curl up towards themselves etc. Never a good sign...

Anyhow I presume this would be the same for a calf? Several times this season I engaged the use of our overhead UV lamp usually used for raising chicks, for both lambs and calves with great success. Leave them under it in a draught free environment and some warm bedding to keep them off the floor and then go back half hour or so later to oral feed warm milk.

Just thought I would share the idea for future reference.

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6 years 5 months ago #536474 by Stikkibeek
Replied by Stikkibeek on topic Calving conundrum
Yes good idea Max. I know the normal process for warming a hypothermia person is not to do it too quickly, but I have rescued a half drowned lamb that was barely moving...just the sucking reflex so minimal it was barely visible. With it, I had little to use, so emptied some of the dairy HWC into a bucket, made sure it was not too hot and plunked the lamb in there just holding her head above water. Massaged. Got her out rubbed as dry as possible and wrapped inside a sack with hay stuffed around her. We had no colostrum to feed her and she couldn't suck well enough to try milk from anything and no teat to put on what we had. Finished milking and took her home. She was put in a cardboard box still in sack and plonked into the oven on our wood range. At 2 am we heard her baaing and got up warmed some milk and fed her that. In the morning she had tipped the box out of the oven and was running around the kitchen floor. We took her back to the farm, rounded up her mother and put her in a yard we made with hay bales but she wouldn't have a baa of the lamb, so we tipped her up, stripped some colostrum out of her and took the lamb home again to be hand raised. She lived with my father (outside) for 14 years.

Sometimes you just have to do what you have at hand. That is the little boy curled up near mum's feet. He had his first night outside last night, but has been out of the stable for a few days in the sun.

Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S
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6 years 4 months ago #536514 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic Calving conundrum
On one of the farming FB pages this season I saw more than once a farmer with calf sitting in spa from an emergency situation .... I guess when needs must and your climate is crap (and your the person who cleans the spa) why not? The idea to get body temp up is still the same.

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6 years 4 months ago - 6 years 4 months ago #536515 by cowvet
Replied by cowvet on topic Calving conundrum
Depends why the temperature is that low....If due to milk fever then they can recover from 35c ..... if toxic and in shock due to infection then much less likely IMO
So I’d say it’s more about why the are hypothermic rather than what their temp is


I love animals...they're delicious
Last edit: 6 years 4 months ago by cowvet.

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6 years 4 months ago #536517 by Stikkibeek
Replied by Stikkibeek on topic Calving conundrum

cowvet wrote: Depends why the temperature is that low....If due to milk fever then they can recover from 35c ..... if toxic and in shock due to infection then much less likely IMO
So I’d say it’s more about why the are hypothermic rather than what their temp is


Cowvet are you responding to my topic, or to a comment made by another poster? If to mine, I have never heard of a calf a few hours old having milkfever. Please explain.

Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S

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6 years 4 months ago #536519 by jeannielea
Replied by jeannielea on topic Calving conundrum
On UK TV country programmes weak calves and lambs are often shown under UV lamps. And these are barn born ones! They have also shown calves that don't breathe immediately after birth being doused with a bucket or two of warm water and then rubbed dry. And in a vet clinic puppies born by caesarian are often put inside clothing close to the chest. So it seems warmth is essential by whatever means!

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6 years 4 months ago #536521 by Rokker
Replied by Rokker on topic Calving conundrum

cowvet wrote: Depends why the temperature is that low....If due to milk fever then they can recover from 35c ..... if toxic and in shock due to infection then much less likely IMO
So I’d say it’s more about why the are hypothermic rather than what their temp is

Many times the reason for hypothermia in a newborn is simply exposure to the elements. A calf born in the early hours of the morning in an exposed area with an icy Southerly wind blowing will lose body heat very rapidly. Add rain into the mix and the effect is even worse. Here on the open Hauraki Plains it is a very common factor in calve mortality, especially with farmers who don't do night checks, or who don't have sheltered areas for cows about to calve.

Do NOT cross this paddock! ... Unless you can do it in 9 seconds, 'cos the bull can do it in 10!
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6 years 4 months ago #536547 by cowvet
Replied by cowvet on topic Calving conundrum

Stikkibeek wrote:

cowvet wrote: Depends why the temperature is that low....If due to milk fever then they can recover from 35c ..... if toxic and in shock due to infection then much less likely IMO
So I’d say it’s more about why the are hypothermic rather than what their temp is


Cowvet are you responding to my topic, or to a comment made by another poster? If to mine, I have never heard of a calf a few hours old having milkfever. Please explain.


Sorry - my post was in response to Max2 comments...”Just entering the temperature discussion it was my understanding from losing one of our cows earlier this season that once body temps get below 35.?? there is no hope of return (at least that is what the visiting vet said when she was called out to said cow) and we had no choice but to shoot her. Hooves had started to curl up towards themselves etc. Never a good sign...”


I love animals...they're delicious

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6 years 4 months ago #536549 by Stikkibeek
Replied by Stikkibeek on topic Calving conundrum

Stikkibeek wrote:
Cowvet are you responding to my topic, or to a comment made by another poster? If to mine, I have never heard of a calf a few hours old having milkfever. Please explain.

cowvet wrote: Sorry - my post was in response to Max2 comments..

So in future either quote the poster, or better still try reading the whole thread :S The thread was never about milk fever or infection, it was about a cold calf, still wet from birth, rapidly slipping into hypothermia due to the cold southerly.

Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S

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6 years 4 months ago #536550 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic Calving conundrum

Stikkibeek wrote:

Stikkibeek wrote:
Cowvet are you responding to my topic, or to a comment made by another poster? If to mine, I have never heard of a calf a few hours old having milkfever. Please explain.

cowvet wrote: Sorry - my post was in response to Max2 comments..

So in future either quote the poster, or better still try reading the whole thread :S The thread was never about milk fever or infection, it was about a cold calf, still wet from birth, rapidly slipping into hypothermia due to the cold southerly.

I don't know if you have a problem with Cowvet in general, but that seems to be a very curt response! Sometimes people post quickly, with entirely helpful intent and content (not so keen on those whose intent is helpful but they're wrong). While you couldn't see the point of that response, it was clear enough for some of us following the whole thread. You know that we often diverge into other areas, whatever the starting topic.
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