Facial ecsema reduction test?

More
7 years 7 months ago #525006 by Midsommer
Hello again,

So far no more creatures have dropped dead since I last wrote.

This is just a question about facial ecsema which our ewes might have.

In the Autumn I bought five older ewes thinking they would be very happy here on our not flash, but fairly plentiful grass to rear some nice lambs.

They were fine when they arrived, I checked they had teeth, and not lumpy udders while they were in the yards, and off they went with the ram onto the hills.

One day one of the ewes broke away and walked quite a way under the cow fences to another part of the farm (by Pirongia) where there are lots of hawthorn trees and gorse etc. She just wouldn't come out, we'd try really hard to drive her out, but she just hid, and would only appear in the distance at dusk.
It also was apparent as the sun went down that she was losing lots of weight - I could see the shadow cast from her spine in the falling sunlight.
Still couldn't get her out.
Eventually, about five weeks later I found her dead in the shade near water where it would stay cold and shaded.

So then I had four left. They went on good grass and lambed really well, one single, 3 sets of twins, and unfortunately 2 (or actually it might be three) with entropion, which I successfully treated by injecting penicillin into the lower lids. The problem was that the ewes are so very thin!
I condidered taking the lambs off one thinking she hadn't enough milk, but I left them all there, and they are probably smaller than they should be, but healthy otherwise.

So there has been a suggestion that facial ecsema might be to blame, even though the farmer I bought them from said he'd used facial ecsema resistant rams, but when? He said he didn't do zinc.

Is it worth keeping these ewes any longer?
Is it cruel to try to keep them another year if they are going to get so thin?
Also Longridge mentioned the above test, but I don't know what it is. Maybe for the ewes or ewe lambs?

I have been looking into the facial ecsema coopworths that sound quite good, and getting young ones, just five again and having another go next year. Fairly disheartening, but the optimism isn't crushed yet!!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
7 years 7 months ago #525008 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic Facial ecsema reduction test?
What's the science behind injecting penicillin into the entropian eyelids?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
7 years 7 months ago #525011 by Midsommer
Hi again,

The volume causes the eyelid to puff up like a balloon which means it sits next to the eye properly rather than all rolled in. Then it is slowly absorbed, and I think it also causes a slight irritation/scar like tissue to keep the eyelid ridged and not rolling in. By the time it is absorbed, only a few days, the eyelid should stay put. Had to do one twice though. But then they sort of grow into their eyelids I guess! Works really well, not that traumatic compared to other methods. Pain though, don't want it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
7 years 7 months ago #525012 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic Facial ecsema reduction test?
Sounds like you need to suck the fat out of their lips and stick it in their eyelids ...

Are you a vet by any chance?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
7 years 7 months ago #525014 by Midsommer
Ha ha no, that would really help! Perhaps I wouldn't have bought all the wrong animals if I was a vet! University of you tube and not enough cash.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
7 years 7 months ago #525017 by Rokker

Midsommer wrote: Also Longridge mentioned the above test, but I don't know what it is. Maybe for the ewes or ewe lambs?


Hi Midsommer - I replied to this on your other thread, but may as well repeat it here. The test that LongRidge is talking about is to do with worms, not facial eczema.

The Faecal Egg Count Reduction Test (FECRT) is for measuring the anthelmintic efficacy of the worming drench by working out what percentage of parasites survived the drug given to the animal. Drenching an animal does not necessarily guarantee the animal gets completely dewormed.

To do the test, you take a faecal sample for FEC checking before drenching, then repeat the test a week to 2 weeks (depending on the drench used) after drenching to assess how effective it's been.

Do NOT cross this paddock! ... Unless you can do it in 9 seconds, 'cos the bull can do it in 10!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
7 years 7 months ago #525018 by kindajojo
Sorry you lost a ewe ,
How old were the ewes when you bought them
Do you have a worming programme ...are you in an area affected by Barber pole.....
When you say plentiful grass, sheep do not like long grass so if you have plenty of knew high grass, it may not be nutritious enough for a ewe feeding lambs
Shorter lawn like grass is better...cows like the longer stuff

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
7 years 7 months ago #525020 by 4trees
Hi, I would suggest if you can keep the ewes going until the lambs are weaned, and the grass will become more plentiful in the next 2-3 months, I would wean them as soon as reasonable from the lambs, feed the ewes up if possible and quit them. You should still get a portion of your costs back as you still have the lambs and you maybe wise to quit them when they are a decent weight. Just suggestions. Cheers.

Cheers
http:treeandshrub.co.nz
The following user(s) said Thank You: Midsommer

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
7 years 7 months ago #525021 by Ruth
Replied by Ruth on topic Facial ecsema reduction test?

Midsommer wrote: Ha ha no, that would really help! Perhaps I wouldn't have bought all the wrong animals if I was a vet! University of you tube and not enough cash.

Because this is a public forum, I'd like to just follow the entropian treatment a little further, please: was the injection of penicillin under veterinary advice or something you decided? I'm not in any sense trying to run you to ground for any reason other than that if it weren't a veterinary-advised treatment but something you found on youtube, it would be best we make that clear here! "Don't try this at home" and all that ...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
7 years 7 months ago #525022 by Midsommer
Yes of course, vet showed me the first one, it was four days old st that point and well bonded so I took it in and going blind so I was really sad as it was starting to get confused, running to my legs instead of the ewe. It's eyes were cloudy and bulging, and I'm not sure it would have managed much more.
The next one I saw much sooner and so went in alone as it was so young but I was very wary by then. They're fine now! The cloudiness disappeared so rapidly, it's amazing how quickly animals heal!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
7 years 7 months ago #525023 by LongRidge
cowvet mentioned moderately recently that a blood test had been developed to indicate how much damage had been done if the sheep had caught Facial Eczema, so talk to your vet about that. With sheep down here, it is difficult to see any damage to the skin, but when the sheep is killed the liver is a ball of dark grey.
Until recently, liver function tests have been unreliable, because the small bit of liver that has not been damaged can function evenly and well enough to suggest there is no problem, even with a massively damaged liver :(
I've not heard of the trick of pumping the eyelid with antibiotic to make it open properly, but if it works then good enough. I've been taught to stretch the eyelid open which turns the lid the right way out.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
7 years 7 months ago #525024 by Midsommer
The ewes were five years old, but I have no way of knowing other than word.
I didn't give them any wormer being older, but when I looked at them initially I think the eyes were nice and pink.
They followed the cows around initially until they worked out how to get under the cow fence in places, then they'd just sit in the best bits - I thought they would be huge! Before lambing time I brought them closer to the house and yards where the trees shelter them, and the grass isn't that good there because it is shady, but not long rank stuff. I tried to give them some nice freshly opened silage and a tray of molasses, but they wouldn't touch any of it.
I really did try with them, but they just haven't done well.
I regret them lambing early. I imagine they would have done better in warmer weather once the grass has had some good sun on it.
Do you think I should worm them?
I'll get them in again and have a look at their eyes. Poos are fine. I've got some matrix drench.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
7 years 7 months ago #525025 by Midsommer
I tried to bring the eyelids out for a while with the first one, but these were all really stubborn well curled in ones! I can't think they could have been any worse, and with so few animals I really wanted them to be ok. I have since been told that sometimes they pinch the eyelid to make a big bruise which might have the same effect. I'm afraid I'm too soft to dig my nails in to hurt them, the needle thing seemed much cleaner and humane at the time.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
7 years 7 months ago #525029 by Ronney
Welcome to the site :)

I'm starting to get a bit confused about all this double posting but that aside, Kindajojo is the only one who has mentioned worms. You say you checked their eyes etc. when you bought them in autumn. We've been through a winter since then and are now coming into yet another season. I would strongly suggest you bring them in and give them a drench before you even start to look for other problems. Older sheep are not impervious to worms. And while you're doing that, discuss with your vet the possibility of FE.

I'm also a little gob-smacked at injecting pen. into eyelids to deal with entropian. A bit of Vaseline to attach the lashes to the wool twice a day will have the same affect without the overuse of drugs for no good purpose.

Cheers,
Ronnie

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
7 years 7 months ago #525032 by Midsommer
I just started a new thread as suggested for the facial eczema question.

I hadn't thought of barbers pole worm. I was going off their little marble poos and that they were older and might have immunity.
I'll bring them in today.
The one that died I had no way of getting hold of, it ran and hid. I put the other sheep back with her but she just wouldn't herd and join them.

I appreciate your concern about the eyelids, but pulling, holding and repositioning made no difference. It was not just the eyelashes scratching the cornea but all the wool as well. The one left the longest had a huge set of eyeballs clouded over from the constant damage, and was going blind. Just thought I'd try the pen the other option was surgery, which wasn't economical, so I went with that, better than a dead sheep . Worked really well too! Antibiotics are fine to be used regarding animal health in controlled circumstances, that is what they were invented for, 1ml prevented each lamb from being blind and maybe dying, so I feel it was a completely justified use of an antibiotic.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.149 seconds