Best way to make money off a lifestyle block?

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10 years 8 months ago #471466 by Aquila
The best way to make a small fortune on an LSB, is to start with a large fortune

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10 years 8 months ago #471479 by Woolpatch
Its sad that business interests and political correctness have resulted in laws that now stop friends exchanging their home grown food. Don't be so hard on sky she is not mistreating animals or exporting to China, she is doing what has untill recently been normal community practice for thousands of years.

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10 years 8 months ago #471516 by cowvet

Woolpatch;474156 wrote: Its sad that business interests and political correctness have resulted in laws that now stop friends exchanging their home grown food. Don't be so hard on sky she is not mistreating animals or exporting to China, she is doing what has untill recently been normal community practice for thousands of years.


business interests make the world/economy go round...and why we all have the luxury of a welfare system, education system and health system etc.

Some things in life are more about the good of the community as a whole (and its economy, and its international reputation for trade) rather than just about me me me me me and what I want.

The fact that some people just don't get the importance of biosecurity and formal disease surveillance through our internal red meat trade concerns me.

Ask yourself - why do we have meat inspection in the meat works at all - why? Don't they think that farmers know a sick animal when they see one? Lets just make everything 'homekill'' and inspect nothing. What does meat inspection achieve anyway .... its not like they ever detain condemn or trim anything on the carcases of healthy animals anyway (Yeah right!)

The homekill laws aren't recent. They are there to protect people right to consume their own food but they are also there the protect the general public from uninspected meat.

If you want homekill meat then there is nothing stopping you from growing your own animal and eating it. You take responsibility for the animal and those in your direct household...if you stuff up then that is who you may harm. if something goes wrong it is isolated to your household and does not extend out to every Tom, Dick and Harry you have given stuff to.

The regulations were designed by people who know a darn sight more about disease surveillance and public health than anyone on this discussion board and I think the positive changes in society over the last few hundreds of years with regard to public health and food safety can be credited to the structure and regulations that exist.


I love animals...they're delicious

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10 years 8 months ago #471547 by Woolpatch
Are you going to ban me from rock climbing because I might get hurt? Are you going to stop me looking after my sick Mother with the flu because I might catch it? It should be my choice to do those things and it should be my choice to accept or reject meat from a friend. I'm allowed to step into his car and put my life in his hands and I might add far greater risk, but I can't eat his meat??

Economically such an exchange benefits me, if you ban it there is a benefit instead to those in the meat industry and I might add you cowvet. It is not quite as simple as one way being selfish and all about me, me, me while the other being so holy and selfless.

If you're worried about taxes for welfare or education there are far more important areas to focus on like corporate tax avoidance or property investment which currently enjoys more tax breaks than it gives back.

Please don't imply that an exchange of food between friends somehow jeopardises or tarnishes our international trade reputation. That is a stretch to say the least and feels like scare mongering to protect the profits of vested interests.

We are not talking about selling meat much less rampant distribution of homekill or everything becoming homekill. That is grossly overstating the issue and an unnecessary extrapolation. Exchanging or gifting food between friends encourages community and family values, all things we need more of IMO.

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10 years 8 months ago #471549 by Hawkspur
At least with rock climbing anyone is familiar with the risks. Gravity is something we have all dealt with and understand. Giving or selling meat to people who are not familiar with the diseases, potential diseases and vectors, treatments and withholding periods, is hardly on a par with rock climbing. There is a lot of potential for great harm, to individuals, and to the farming community, and the economy. The more you minimise this, the less you appear to understand these risks.

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10 years 8 months ago #471550 by Woolpatch
I don't agree at all, nearly everyone is aware there is a risk of sickness with raw meat if it is not prepared or handled properly. Arguably the probability of harness or rope failure is much less understood.

No one is suggesting legalising the sale of homekill, or bypassing all the rules and regulations for the mass market. I totally agree that to do so would harm our economy and international trade reputation. All we are talking about is allowing farmers (who are well aware of withholding periods) to share with their friends meat that they are happy to eat themselves.

"The more you minimise this, the less you appear to understand these risks." Please tell me then how many people die each year in NZ from eating homekill?

Lets not overstate the health risk of homekill, the chance of harm or death from seeing a friend with flu, stepping into there car, doing an extreme sport with him, smoking his cigarettes etc. is vastly higher and yet we do not restrict those activities. The difference of course is that no business profits from lobbying to get those restrictions in place. The food and meat industry however has every motivation to lobby for restrictions on homekill consumption.

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10 years 8 months ago #471555 by Kilmoon
Woolpatch, first

nearly everyone is aware there is a risk of sickness with raw meat if it is not prepared or handled properly.

- please tell that to my MIL you can't seem to understand that I like my meat well cooked because I am well aware of what can slip through our inspection systems or be added through bad handling/storage! At restaurants I've sent steaks back for further cooking if it comes out with pink meat or blood oozing out of it. "Everyone knows" chicken should be well cooked or you risk food poisoning, well guess what: make that ALL meat!

Well cooked hopefully kills off any bugs that were in it or have been added via bad handling - and having worked in restaurants I can tell you - make sure everything is very well cooked before you stick it in your mouth, or you will know about it the next day or two.

Let me share with you a story I heard a few years ago, about why we have the regulations in the first place.
We heard of a lifestyler in our area who got a load of sheep slaughtered for homekill - he got warned by the chap (who had been in the meat industry for years at freezing works throughout the country) that he had cysts in the meat that looked suspiciously like hydatids (sp?) and needed further testing, and the sheep still on his property should be checked and/or destroyed. When I asked what the lifestyler had done, the homekill person said he had heard later that said lifestyler gave the meat away, and sold the remaining flock asap.

So homekill your own animals, I really don't care what you eat and whether you poison yourself....but like hell you do not put our agricultural commercial sector at risk by spreading that meat to others.

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10 years 8 months ago #471556 by Woolpatch
Hang on though, knowingly spreading around infection or suspected disease of any kind like hydatids was already illegal. In the same way it is illegal to knowingly spread HIV.

There are still a million and one ways I can make my friends sick with meat bought from a butcher or a supermarket if I don't cook it or handle it properly. Those issues are quite independent from the meat being homekill or not.

Lastly no one has explained how me getting sick from my neighbours homekill "puts our agricultural commercial sector at risk" that feels like a very large leap to me?

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10 years 8 months ago #471559 by tonic

swaggie;463028 wrote: Does the climate suit saffron for someone? I seem to recall NZ imports a huge amount....


.i looked onto it but as a part time 'job' it was not viable. Perhaps it would be if you could do it in larger amounts than possible for me.

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10 years 8 months ago #471560 by max2

Woolpatch;474242 wrote: Hang on though, knowingly spreading around infection or suspected disease of any kind like hydatids was already illegal. In the same way it is illegal to knowingly spread HIV.

There are still a million and one ways I can make my friends sick with meat bought from a butcher or a supermarket if I don't cook it or handle it properly. Those issues are quite independent from the meat being homekill or not.

Lastly no one has explained how me getting sick from my neighbours homekill "puts our agricultural commercial sector at risk" that feels like a very large leap to me?


OTT And we still have people in the community having unprotected sex with new partners, using excuses that wearing condoms takes away the sensation etc... or simply not being ''prepared''.... :(

I don't think ''any'' farmer should be able to give or sell meat nilly willy. There are some very poor forms of farm management. The label ''farmer'' doesn't necessarily mean that person implements best practice with animal and/or meat hygiene.

There is a dairy farmer nearby who supplies f*nterra and the state of his cow shed is disgusting, it hasn't been inspected by f*nterra's contractors which i thought they were supposed to do as part of their obligations.

If he can get away with the disgusting conditions that he has under a system that is supposed to be monitored, what would happen if the system became unmonitored or not bound by law?

This guy wouldn't give a toss. It will affect the people or kids of people who cannot or will not be able to afford to pay a premium price for certified products should our industry be de-regulated.

by all means eat your own homekill, we do. But don't try and prevent laws that protect the general population from unscrupulous operators looking to make a quick buck.

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10 years 8 months ago #471561 by max2

tonic;474246 wrote: .i looked onto it but as a part time 'job' it was not viable. Perhaps it would be if you could do it in larger amounts than possible for me.


I had a little play with some back in Aussie with saffron I ordered from Tasmania. Its back breaking work which I think puts people off doing it on a large scale, but I think if you did it with raised garden beds, it would be better health wise for that short period of time you need to harvest.

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10 years 8 months ago #471563 by Woolpatch
swaggie I totally agree with everything you said above.

"But don't try and prevent laws that protect the general population from unscrupulous operators looking to make a quick buck." 100% agree with this also we should absolute not make it legal to advertise or sell homekill.

Lets be honest though eating meat given to us by a farmer friend that we know and trust is a dam site safer than many alternatives. There is more chance that the teenager at the supermarket deli sneezed or did not wash-up and sanitise contact items properly when handling our purchase. There is more chance that our cafe or restaurant meal was handled carelessly by a junior chef helper on minimum wage.

I can't understand why so many on this forum demonise homekill and yet presumably have it in their own freezer.

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10 years 8 months ago #471564 by cowvet

Woolpatch;474236 wrote: No one is suggesting legalising the sale of homekill, or bypassing all the rules and regulations for the mass market. I totally agree that to do so would harm our economy and international trade reputation. All we are talking about is allowing farmers (who are well aware of withholding periods) to share with their friends meat that they are happy to eat themselves.


OK so lets change the legislation...how many friends am I allowed to pass it on to...are they allowed to be pregnant, young, immunocompromised? Where do you draw this new line and assure me it does not morph into a huge unregulated/uninspected meat market. It is quite black and white now - your household and those who work for you. What do you change it to whilst still protecting the wider community/mass market.

As a farmer I pay levies for meat to be inspected prior to consumption by the public. That is part of being a farmer. What gives some the right to bypass this system and undermine my commercially required obligations?

From my experience lifestyle farmers are generally very unaware with regard to meat withholdings, appropriate use of veterinary medicines and recognising disease. Some of the meat withholdings can extend out to 90 days...and in the recent Theilleria cases cane be as high as 140 days.
It is also a relevant concern that people that are likely to ignore meat regulation requirements regarding homekill are also more likely to also take shortcuts around meat withholdings etc and are less likely to have good recording systems.

Demonise homekill? - yes I have it in my freezer and fully support a persons right to raise and eat their own meat. What I do not support is the idea of extending that into the wider community. the last thing we need is a bigger black market meat trade than we already have.


I love animals...they're delicious

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10 years 8 months ago #471566 by Woolpatch
The activity of the black market and those with no respect for the law will carry on regardless of this debate or any tweak to the rules. I don't believe there should be a restriction on the type or number of friends and family a farmer can share their produce with. The unscrupulous ones will be ignoring current regulations anyway all that happens now is that the honest ones are restricted.

A mechanic can fix a friends car at home despite the risk, a dive instructor can take a friend out diving and it is up to those involved to decide if they are pregnant or have asthma and if they are healthy enough. Why should a farmer be treated differently other than the fact that some in the industry have taken exception to it.

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10 years 8 months ago #471567 by wandering free
If I was starting out like Mrt700 is with young children I would be trying to find somewhere that can be developed on the lines of permaculture with good water supply and if you can make a profit out of dog breading all to the good.

It can take many years of trial and error to get a diverse and flourishing LSB, but if you want a secure future for you kids then I don't think there is anything better that you can do for them.

Not wishing to get into arguments on the merits of regulations and how they protect our exports I still would be happy to eat sky's rabbits, but I am from the old school and like my meat well cooked.

It's a pity they have the regulations on aquaculture they do I would love a hydroponic aquaculture set up, but trout are on the regulations list and it bugs me.

Just a thought on the downturn in services that cowvet mentions I wonder how much of that is EROEI and something humans will have to contend with over the coming years, and why I think being as self sufficient as possible is the only future you have some control over.

Just me and the cat now, on 2 acres of fruit and veg + hazel nuts, macadamia, chestnuts and walnuts,
www.youtube.com/user/bandjsellars?feature=mhee

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