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Topic-icon Wanted interesting broad bean varieties

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4 years 1 month ago #39349 by Name123

I'm trying to gather as many appealing broad bean varieties to plant as possible, as a landrace, within the next month. Hoping to end up with interesting variations colour wise, at least, like these .

Koanga has some appealing coloured broad bean varieties, but unfortunately, like most things that are interesting in their catalogue, they're perennially sold out or have wacky prices. I also see on trademe that someone sells 15 red broad bean seeds for $3.50, which isn't really a practical price - what are you going to do with the broad beans from 15 plants?

Does anyone have any idea of other places coloured broad bean seeds can be bought from? I'm happy to buy them from a forum member, if you can provide at least 45. Any suggestions of other interesting broad bean varieties to include in the landrace, are appreciated.

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4 years 1 month ago #503978 by catherinelee33

What do you mean by as a landrace please? (Sorry not to answer yr question😀)

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4 years 1 month ago #504009 by Name123

catherinelee33;510192 wrote: What do you mean by as a landrace please? (Sorry not to answer yr question😀)

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This is an article by someone who does it. I haven't tried it before, so best I not make up my own explanation :D

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4 years 1 month ago #504039 by Anakei

growing landrace veggies is high on my list of things to do. I think initially it could be quite expensive while you are sowing many varieties, but when you have your landrace established all you have to do is save the seed,

Aren't heritage vegetables essentially landraces?


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4 years 1 month ago #504049 by Deanna

I have some Heirloom Scottish if you are interested.


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4 years 1 month ago #504062 by Name123

Anakei;510261 wrote: growing landrace veggies is high on my list of things to do. I think initially it could be quite expensive while you are sowing many varieties, but when you have your landrace established all you have to do is save the seed,

Aren't heritage vegetables essentially landraces?

Heritage vegetables are generally heirloom and known varieties - like cavolo nero kale, right? Heirloom as I understand it, is about preserving qualities by inbreeding the same varieties and avoiding hybrids, and only allowing open pollination with their sisters, brothers and cousins. I would say they are not landraces, given that.

Yes, I think it could be quite expensive. But the selection of varieties of plants in NZ may be quite a bit more limited, than it was for the guy in the article, which may limit costs. Importing from overseas is something I am considering, which would raise them.

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4 years 1 month ago #504076 by Anakei

Name123;510289 wrote: Heritage vegetables are generally heirloom and known varieties - like cavolo nero kale, right? Heirloom as I understand it, is about preserving qualities by inbreeding the same varieties and avoiding hybrids, and only allowing open pollination with their sisters, brothers and cousins.

I would say that is true now, but initially it would have been a plant and that was then saved over and over again until the characteristics became peculiar to that area, and suited the growing conditions. Yesterdays landrace becomes today's heirloom. :D


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4 years 1 month ago #504084 by Anakei

I started to google this as its an interesting subject.
99% of information about landrace growing on the internet is about CANNABIS :D [:0] :D
Takes growing your own to a whole new level......


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4 years 1 month ago #504089 by Name123

Anakei;510313 wrote: I started to google this as its an interesting subject.
99% of information about landrace growing on the internet is about CANNABIS :D [:0] :D
Takes growing your own to a whole new level......

That's one of the interesting ones. If they legalised hemp, and we all grew it, it'd cross pollinate with the marijuana and weaken the strains. So really, it'd be in the best interest of the country against the demon marijuana, if hemp growing was opened and made legal without the current extortionate cost or hoops.

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4 years 1 month ago #504093 by Name123

Hmm. Been looking at getting even more varieties, even if it means buying from different suppliers, and was wondering if the seed companies in NZ even grew their own, or bought in from some wholesaler.

Here's a relevant article . Egmont seeds supplies Carnival and McGregors, which means that you may as well buy their bargain brand Carnival like it has been at the warehouse. Which possibly leaves Kings as the only real reliable alternative. Yes, I know there's Koanga, but there online store is pretty terrible and more often than not they're sold out.

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4 years 1 month ago #504102 by Anakei

Name123;510318 wrote: That's one of the interesting ones. If they legalised hemp, and we all grew it, it'd cross pollinate with the marijuana and weaken the strains. So really, it'd be in the best interest of the country against the demon marijuana, if hemp growing was opened and made legal without the current extortionate cost or hoops.

I like your thinking[^]

Name123;510318 wrote: Hmm. Been looking at getting even more varieties, even if it means buying from different suppliers, and was wondering if the seed companies in NZ even grew their own, or bought in from some wholesaler.
Here's a relevant article. Egmont seeds supplies Carnival and McGregors, which means that you may as well buy their bargain brand Carnival like it has been at the warehouse. Which possibly leaves Kings as the only real reliable alternative. Yes, I know there's Koanga, but there online store is pretty terrible and more often than not they're sold out.


So. If you get hold of some hybrid seeds, and then grow them out and save the seeds, the next generation will be a shake of the dice as to their genetic make up. Is this a good way of getting a wide genetic range for your landrace?


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4 years 1 month ago #504141 by Name123

Anakei;510333 wrote: So. If you get hold of some hybrid seeds, and then grow them out and save the seeds, the next generation will be a shake of the dice as to their genetic make up. Is this a good way of getting a wide genetic range for your landrace?

I don't know enough to do anything but speculate.

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4 years 1 month ago #504192 by morioka

I've been thinking about this topic for a few days, As I have a bit of a background in plant breeding (in particular legumes) I may be able to shed some light on the questions

Landraces are typically plants that have grown geographically isolated from its siblings for many generations, often thousands of years and have adapted to their own unique environment. They are characterised by being very variable in growth and the only selection process is the environment they are growing in. Heirlooms on the other hand are kind of like landraces but have been selected over time for particular traits such as yield, colour etc...

Landraces are very important in plant breeding as they usually have wide genetic variability and makes them adaptable to their environment should their be an adverse change.

The idea of trying to grow plants with a wide genetic base is a good strategy, but as with all good ideas not always that easy, especially in legumes. Sorry Name123 Most legumes are self fertile and don't require cross pollination. (The reason I bold most is that sometime they do and occasionally are self incompatible, just to complicate things:rolleyes:)

If you are wanting cross pollination of your broad bean you have to do it by hand, the common way is to emasculate the flowers and hand transfer the pollen. You may get cross pollination from bumble bees but the progress will be much slower.

Once you have pollinated and are ready to harvest seeds, you need to harvest all seeds (or an unselected sample of them ) and grow them out. The first generation is not the time to select your plants. You probably need to go through at least 4 generations where there is no selection. The reason for this is that your goal is to produce genetic diversity, and the minute you start selecting you are removing diversity. Your first generation will be really variable (especially if there are hybrids in the mix, but over time it will settle down as the genes are mixed

Its always tempting to select plants on phenotype (how the plant looks) but often times there are valuable genes hiding in the poorer looking plants, which may not be expressed until adverse conditions arrive, (drought/moisture tolerance, yield, low soil fertility tolerance etc). There are many examples of this (super red genes hiding in tasteless green cherry tomatoes, high yield genes hiding in wild rice plants).

It's really important to have defined goals in your selection process and have a number of characteristics you are selecting on eg yield, flavour, growth rate, disease resistance etc etc. In the first round of selection you may have small plants with good taste, but disease susceptible, which should be selected along with the big plant with small yield but disease resistance.

It's not to say it can't be done, and it's easierand faster with plants that rely on cross pollination such as curcubits and corn. but it is a bit more difficult with legumes, but if you have a strategy it can be done.

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4 years 1 month ago #504217 by Name123

morioka;510434 wrote: If you are wanting cross pollination of your broad bean you have to do it by hand, the common way is to emasculate the flowers and hand transfer the pollen. You may get cross pollination from bumble bees but the progress will be much slower.

Thanks for the post, it's very informative and thought provoking.

Yes, I was aware that they didn't cross easily and that I was likely going to have to do some hand pollination.

I see more bumblebees than bees here in early spring. Do you have any knowledge of how likely cross-pollination is, if bumblebees are very active?

Also I think I've read something about multiple pollen donors contributing together, rather than one or the other. Is that a thing, and what would I search for? I'm curious whether there's any benefit to hand pollinating a given flower from multiple sources.

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4 years 1 month ago #504227 by Anakei

This is excellent information Morioka. [^]
I had a sketchy idea of sowing many varieties and then marking the first to germinate, then out of those the most disease resistant and then out of those the best tasting, but from this information I would have been making the selections too soon.
I've been trying to research the how to's but there seems to be nothing in between Mother Earth articles and scientific papers. I studied horticulture years ago but I find the more advanced science too much for my brain now:confused: :D Of course I could just grow marijuana - plenty of information about THAT :D
Any recommended reading ?


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