US style policing in Godzone?

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10 years 7 months ago #468298 by igor
Replied by igor on topic US style policing in Godzone?
Dead right swaggie. If we can't give all the cops handguns and full training in the use of same at least give them all tasers and pepper spray so they can do their job. Besides that why could the police not use their batons in the case you describe?

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10 years 7 months ago #468309 by Aquila
Ever been hit by an retractable baton? It's like getting hit with a fly swat.

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10 years 7 months ago #468322 by igor
Replied by igor on topic US style policing in Godzone?
What happened to the old fashioned long baton as used by the red squad?

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10 years 7 months ago #468333 by Aquila
They went out long ago, shame really as used properly they were very versatile

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10 years 7 months ago #468334 by Muz1
Replied by Muz1 on topic US style policing in Godzone?
Society is now reaping the problems of closing mental institutions.
With the way society now has drug, drinking, mental problems and wrongful parole releases I see it only fair to allow police to carry firearms to protect themselves and the public. I also think net guns as used for deer recovery would prevent death by shooting in some circumstances.

Everything Must be Somewhere

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10 years 7 months ago #468351 by Hawkspur
I have no issue with the closing of mental institutions. It's the lack of support for those now living in the community that appals me.
So many people who used to be institutionalised really can live much happier and productive lives if given just a bit of support, and the option of institution living when required, which is often only for relatively short periods.

The issue I see with police officers carrying firearms at all times is the way it changes their relationship and interaction with people. The overwhelming majority of their work does not require arms, and not having them at all times makes them much more approachable to everyone, which is very very important. We have police that are still seen by many as supportive and helpful officials rather than punitive enforcers. Long may that continue.

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10 years 7 months ago #468357 by KaiapoiKen
As a matter of interest, does anybody know what the situation is in Ozzie. I know the NSW and Queensland police are armed. Do they have similar problems with accidental discharges? As far as relationship and interaction is concerned being armed doesn't seem to affect their interactions from my observations.

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10 years 7 months ago #468368 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic US style policing in Godzone?

KaiapoiKen;470751 wrote: As a matter of interest, does anybody know what the situation is in Ozzie. I know the NSW and Queensland police are armed. Do they have similar problems with accidental discharges? As far as relationship and interaction is concerned being armed doesn't seem to affect their interactions from my observations.


No it doesn't affect their relationships with the public at all. Lets be frank, the families who have regular dealings with the police on the ''other side'' of the law on either side of the ditch are not raising their kids thinking these guys do an awesome job. They raise them to think the police are harrassing their family.

And that is regardless of whether they are armed or not.

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10 years 7 months ago #468371 by Scuba_Steve
I got no problems with guns being in vehicles (with the caveat of training, I do like the deer gun idea tho) or cops having batons, sprays, tasers... But guns being on the cop is a stupid idea.
Oz has much harsher gun laws than us but because the cops are armed the crims have much more serious firepower than here i.e. military weapons & handguns instead of knifes or the occasional .22 rifle & look at America, they're even worse!
As a cop from LA said in a doco on guns; "you give the police guns the crims get automatic rifles. You give the cops bullet proof vests, the crims get armour piercing bullets. You give the cops automatic rifles the crims get bazookas & miniguns. The criminals will always outgun the police"

There is very few cases in NZ where a gun is of advantage, most of those being used as a "reason" for arming police like the drug house where the officers were attacked & the dog got shot, or the officer that was attacked at a traffic stop. These officers would have all been dead had they been armed, it was best for them that they weren't armed; even the cops involved were saying this despite the propaganda trying to convince us otherwise
Arming Police is a BAD idea & puts everyone at risk


Science is but an organized system of ignorance

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10 years 7 months ago #468419 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic US style policing in Godzone?
And the rest of us who come from countries/states whose police are armed don't really give a toss about it either way. I have more concerns about the dick next door getting ahold of his stepfather's gun than I have of the police being armed.

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10 years 7 months ago #468427 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic US style policing in Godzone?

Scuba_Steve;470765 wrote: IOz has much harsher gun laws than us but because the cops are armed the crims have much more serious firepower than here i.e. military weapons & handguns instead of knifes or the occasional .22 rifle & look at America, they're even worse!


That is completely incorrect. My Hubby is licenced in both countries to contain various arms. As his partner I have been through a more extensive interview process here than I ever was in Aussie.

In fact over there I wasn't even asked if it was ok for him to bring his guns to my home. (not that I mind, but I wasn't followed up by officialdom when he moved and nor were his previous places of residence).

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10 years 7 months ago #468428 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic US style policing in Godzone?

swaggie;470815 wrote: And the rest of us who come from countries/states whose police are armed don't really give a toss about it either way. I have more concerns about the dick next door getting ahold of his stepfather's gun than I have of the police being armed.


And herein I raise a good point without realising it. That young adult is under medication and treatment for various this and that, so therefore as he would have access to his step father's gun/s, shouldn't his medical situation be a reportable issue at least to the licencing police and the gun removed until the household returned to an acceptable state?

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10 years 7 months ago #468444 by Aquila
Should would could..... Only reportable if the person on medication is a firearms license holder

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10 years 7 months ago #468500 by mikethebike
Swaggie thats my point! the "dick head young adult next door" may or may not be on medication but having a mental health diagnosis if thats what he has, actually makes him more likely to be a victim of crime than a perpetrator of it.
The original victim in this thread is also suffering from the same kind of stigmatism only in his case its worse because he is also black, Im not saying that the police are intentionally racist or that this is anything other than a tragic accident, but i wonder if they would have gone out in such force if he hadn't been labled as a crazy black man?
just a thought?
In my work i have seen hundreds of cases where the police have over reacted to how they treat MH patients, as individuals none of them are particularly against people with an Axis one mental health diagnosis, but its just ignorance, locally they are improving through education and experience but there are still plenty that think those people are dangerous and should be locked up, just as earlier in this thread some folks seem to suggest that all those thousands of people who were discharged from institutions were a risk to the community, if that's so then why haven't there been thousands of crimes committed by them happening, Oh no, the crimes have been directed at them and at times by the very people who are supposed to protect them. and finally dont forget that those very same people are probably sitting at their desks writing on this thread because they are you and me!!!!

Mike and Suzi living the lifestyle in sunny central hawkes bay, Still loads of animals oh and we still have our Zebra truck.

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10 years 7 months ago #468514 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic US style policing in Godzone?
Hi Mike, I still stand by my comment that if I can't recognise mental illness in a family member, how is someone who is unknown to another person, supposed to recognise it?

The article www.stuff.co.nz/national/9054817/Acciden...hooting-investigated says the victims family were concerned enough about his behaviour to call police in, the family knew he had a gun, so the police were working with information provided by the man's family and responded accordingly.

The gun was 'slung'' on the officer's shoulder when it discharged... malfunction or human error, but I am not reading it as that the gun was being deliberately pointed at the man at the time of the shooting.

The original victim/s are his family.

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