US style policing in Godzone?

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10 years 8 months ago #468146 by Blueberry
Considering that a lot of very violent, totally senseless and brutal things are done by people with mental health issues - be these the consequence of an inherent sickness or the consequence of drug abuse - and that particularly people in an 'insane rage' can develop inhuman strength in stressful situations, I don't think the police officer was out of line when pointing his gun at an offender as a precaution. That the gun went off was surely no more than an unfortunate accident. That does not take the fact away that police officers have a right to do their job unharmed.

We are told we cannot blame people with mental health issues for their actions.

But apparently we can blame police officers for taking every precaution in order to stay alive?

[;)] Blueberry
treading lightly on mother earth

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10 years 8 months ago #468151 by igor
Replied by igor on topic US style policing in Godzone?
I don't see insanity as an excuse. What about the rights of the victim of the supposedly insane criminal?

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10 years 8 months ago #468154 by jennym
"But apparently we can blame police officers for taking every precaution in order to stay alive?"

shooting someone lying on the ground with handcuffs on is not trying to stay alive.

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10 years 8 months ago #468155 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic US style policing in Godzone?
As a relative of someone who is under medical treatment for mental health issues, if I can't recognise it, how the *&*& is someone unknown to the person supposed to recognise it?

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10 years 8 months ago #468215 by Blueberry

jennym;470529 wrote: "But apparently we can blame police officers for taking every precaution in order to stay alive?"

shooting someone lying on the ground with handcuffs on is not trying to stay alive.


are you ascertaining that the police officer shot on purpose?

[;)] Blueberry
treading lightly on mother earth

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10 years 8 months ago #468216 by Blueberry

swaggie;470530 wrote: As a relative of someone who is under medical treatment for mental health issues, if I can't recognise it, how the *&*& is someone unknown to the person supposed to recognise it?


Yup, exactly. How is a police officer supposed to know if the guy lying on the ground is just insanely mad and aggressive or has mental health issues? For that matter, at this instant in time, would a diagnosis have any impact on the result?

[;)] Blueberry
treading lightly on mother earth

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10 years 8 months ago #468225 by Kalmara
I think some are missing the point - it was accident --
The police were armed as it was reported that the gentleman had firearms - not so innocent in my book.
I would like to see all police armed

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10 years 8 months ago #468255 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic US style policing in Godzone?
Yeah its standard in NSW Kalmara and its no problem there for the public.

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10 years 8 months ago #468277 by mikethebike
The issue here is that because the person shot has a mental health issue the police as they often do overreacted, there is absolutely no excuse what so ever for pointing a loaded rifle at someone handcuffed and lying on the ground whether they have mental health issues or are total psychopaths. whilst im sure the officer feels bad the victim isnt out of the woods yet how do you think the family will feel if he dies?

Mike and Suzi living the lifestyle in sunny central hawkes bay, Still loads of animals oh and we still have our Zebra truck.

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10 years 8 months ago #468278 by mikethebike
oh and while im at it whats the difference between someone with mental health issues and me or you? well i can can tell you there is no difference its just as likely to be you or me as anyone else 1 in 4 people in NZ have mental health problems so whilst you are debating whether he deserved it or not, consider how you would feel if it was you or your husband or brother.

Mike and Suzi living the lifestyle in sunny central hawkes bay, Still loads of animals oh and we still have our Zebra truck.

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10 years 8 months ago #468279 by mikethebike
oh and kalmara how many people on here have fire arms do you think?

Mike and Suzi living the lifestyle in sunny central hawkes bay, Still loads of animals oh and we still have our Zebra truck.

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10 years 8 months ago #468285 by Inger
Replied by Inger on topic US style policing in Godzone?
That poor cop is going to be seeing that shooting, in his head, whether he's awake or asleep, for the rest of his life. It's just horrible.

45 hectares between Whangarei and Paparoa. Registered Dexter cattle, Wiltshire sheep - black, white & pied.
New Hampshire Red poultry & Dorking poultry. Pilgrim Geese, Appleyard Ducks.
A cat called Pusscat and still looking for another heading dog.

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10 years 8 months ago #468294 by Scuba_Steve
For those thinking it'd be a good idea to arm Police, be careful what you wish for!

If we arm Police, other criminal gangs will arm themselves; Yes you might be thinking "well they already have guns" & you'd be right only those guns are usually left back at HQ. Arm the Police & every other gang will carry too, only they'll have much better guns (& at this stage much better training).
If you arm Police as unapproachable as some might be currently, once armed you won't be able to approach a single one, you'll be told to keep 10m back & said gun will be pulled on you if you go closer.
If we arm Police innocent shootings will increase by a significant amount, & it could be you or your family shot.
If we arm Police those cases where Police have been attacked especially when with their own weapons, the Police wouldn't have "walked away" from them.

As I said be careful what you wish for, arming Police has much disadvantage to little advantage. Arming the people would be the better option but I wouldn't push for that either.


Science is but an organized system of ignorance

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10 years 8 months ago #468296 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic US style policing in Godzone?

mikethebike;470662 wrote: oh and while im at it whats the difference between someone with mental health issues and me or you? well i can can tell you there is no difference its just as likely to be you or me as anyone else 1 in 4 people in NZ have mental health problems so whilst you are debating whether he deserved it or not, consider how you would feel if it was you or your husband or brother.


Because Mike it is often felt and said as a ''reason'' why people undertake various crimes that they have mental health issues, poor childhoods or other such things going on that it appears to give them an allowance to be excused for their conduct and very little is ever said in support, or as loud, for their victims. Those victims may too suffer from mental health issues or poor childhoods but the headlines don't concern themselves with that at all. [:(!]

I don't think anyone hasn't said nor felt this incident wasn't less than a complete tragedy for all concerned. As Inger has pointed out, it will stay with that Officer for the rest of his life, possibly even destroying him too.

But if there is one thing I do know for certain, the truth is never fully published in any newspaper/news article, we were not there, and in a brief moment that will last a lifetime for everyone concerned the Officer's gun was discharged.

All very sad for everyone concerned.

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10 years 8 months ago #468297 by max2
Replied by max2 on topic US style policing in Godzone?

Scuba_Steve;470678 wrote: For those thinking it'd be a good idea to arm Police, be careful what you wish for!

If we arm Police, other criminal gangs will arm themselves; Yes you might be thinking "well they already have guns" & you'd be right only those guns are usually left back at HQ. Arm the Police & every other gang will carry too, only they'll have much better guns (& at this stage much better training).
If you arm Police as unapproachable as some might be currently, once armed you won't be able to approach a single one, you'll be told to keep 10m back & said gun will be pulled on you if you go closer.
If we arm Police innocent shootings will increase by a significant amount, & it could be you or your family shot.
If we arm Police those cases where Police have been attacked especially when with their own weapons, the Police wouldn't have "walked away" from them.

As I said be careful what you wish for, arming Police has much disadvantage to little advantage. Arming the people would be the better option but I wouldn't push for that either.


I gave evidence last year in court for a kidnap/assault case near my former work. Apart from the shock of watching what was going on at the time and unable to do anything apart from talk the police through events on the phone, I was shocked how long it took them to arrive considering their base was just in the next road, less than apprx. 500 metres from the intersection where the final assault of the woman occured.

later I learned that the police had to wait until the taser and backup arrived from the next town. It was felt that the fellow (already known to police) was under the influence of drugs. From the brutality that I witnessed him deal out to the woman (who he had kept locked up for several days before she managed to escape) she could have been spared somewhat had they been able to attend the scene more rapidly, armed.

I will also say at this point a man stood with me and watched and didn't feel confident enough to overpower the man doing the bashing, that is how bad it was.

Having witnessed that, I have no regard at all for anyone who places themself in this position and have no problem with the police being armed as they are in NSW. The police shouldn't have to wait to be armed and the victim shouldn't have had to go through what she did towards the end of the incident.

the situation was bloody terrifying and I know it won't leave me for the rest of my life, and I was only a bystander/witness who called the cops.

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