Topic-icon Pine Forest Nuisance

  • BlueApple
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05 Jul 2018 17:51 #540790 by BlueApple

Hi all,

We're thinking about buying land near a pine forest plantation. In the covenants, it says we can't complain about any nuisance caused by the forestry industry.

Does anyone live near a forestry business, specifically pines? And if so what problems have you encountered because of them? Do they spray the trees often? I'm guessing there will be noise and dust when they cut the trees down but apart from that?

I hope someone can enlighten me!

Thanks!

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05 Jul 2018 18:02 #540792 by Stikkibeek

Pollen during bloom might be a problem, and shared roads also if big logging trucks are trundling down and up them for days on end. And yes there will be noise and dust associated. You lawyer would be the best one to explain the covenant. There will be a report on the inclusion of it, available with the title


Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S

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05 Jul 2018 18:08 #540793 by BlueApple

Thanks a lot for your quick reply! Yes I think the best thing to do will be to get the lawyer on this to define all the details.

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05 Jul 2018 19:50 #540796 by LongRidge

We logged our block 20 years ago, and had absolutely no problems.
Other blocks have recently been logged, and the only problem is that the trucks removing the logs can be used 24 hours per day if there is a need to get it onto a ship quickly, or the weather is optimal for carrying the logs out, So if the house is close to the right of way out (within about 50 meters)then that will cause a slight problem. The trucking companies that have worked around here have been very good to work with and seldom used the roads when traffic or the school bus was around.
Other than the pollen, the huge problem that I had was watching the neighbours forest being cut down rather than doing work :-).
Especially important when having forestry close is having Public Liability Insurance, and not have fires that do not have the appropriate approval.
Also, the forestry owners have to keep their "stock" (trees) in, so don't need anything in the way of fencing to do this. But you have to keep your stock out, so might have to pay for all the fencing.

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05 Jul 2018 19:54 #540797 by BlueApple

Thanks so much for your lengthy answer it's super helpful! Do you know anything about chemicals? how often do they spray the trees and so on?

Thanks again!

:D

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05 Jul 2018 22:13 #540800 by Stikkibeek

I've never heard of anybody spraying pine trees. They pretty much do what the do when growing. if they are for timber, you will get teams coming in to prune the lower branches off so the timber doesn't get too many big knots in it, but little else until harvest. Trees for paper pulp are not usually pruned except perhaps for access, and the fire breaks might be sprayed to keep combustible weeds at a minimum.They may weed spray the area initially if it has old cover such as weeds to contend with or been fallow between plantings for a long time, That's when gorse may regrow if it was there before the first forestry. . I may be wrong about this as more modern forestry could have changed.


Did you know, that what you thought I said, was not what I meant :S

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06 Jul 2018 05:57 #540803 by stentor

If you are downwind of the prevailing wind passing over the pine forest you can get pines sprouting on your land - more of a long term problem but needs constant work to keep them down if you don't want them

Also some people downstream from waterways that pass through pine plantations have had the forestry slash come down in flooding events causing problems - a real headache on the East Coast at the moment

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06 Jul 2018 09:36 #540807 by LongRidge

There may be a helicopter spray with the likes of Tordon a few months before re-planting, and another spray with an anti-bracken chemical a couple of years after planting. They try to keep the gorse while the trees are growing because it gives the trees shelter, stabilises the ground a bit, provides nitrogen for the trees, helps to make the trees grow straight upwards, and gets smothered out by the trees about the time that the trees get their first prune.
Unless with your permission, the trees cannot be closer than 20 meters from your boundary, so they don't spray that.
Our trees had a helicopter application of boron.

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06 Jul 2018 17:29 #540817 by BlueApple

Thanks a lot! Yes it makes sense that they spray initially but not much after.

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06 Jul 2018 17:41 #540818 by BlueApple

Thank you! Yes I think wildlings could be an issue but the forest is behind the land and the wind would push the seeds away in most cases.

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06 Jul 2018 17:42 #540820 by BlueApple

Thank you for your reply. Is Boron application common? And if so is it sprayed by helicopter? The land is downhill from a forest so we are worried about the boron seeping into the ground on the property.

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07 Jul 2018 11:05 #540826 by LongRidge

I suspect that the seedlings from the radiata will be a different variety than the wilding pines, and even if not they will have better growth characteristics than wildings.
Boron goes on as dust or pellets, I cannot remember which. Only enough goes on for what the pines need, so there is not much loss onto surrounding downhill land. Even so, boron is a trace element needed for some of the plants in a pasture. not enough will get into your diet to have the slightest effect (unless there is an accidental dump on your vege garden, and your only food comes from that dump site, which is unlikely because wheat flour is probably a large part of your diet).

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07 Jul 2018 18:45 #540840 by Hawkspur

Not spray specific, but I would doubt they would be able to covenant out of some of their legal obligations, eg. see here:
legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/20...test/DLM7373870.html
but ask your lawyer.

See the rules about noise etc
We recently pointed these out to our neighbouring forestry harvesters, who were operating at 4 am.

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07 Jul 2018 22:02 #540845 by Ronney

Frankly, I would be more concerned as to how the growing pines are going to affect my land in terms of sun because, in my opinion, that will be the most important part of living close to a plantation. As LR has pointed out, wilding pines will not be an issue, Boron, if it's used at all, won't be an issue, harvesting might be depending on how close you are to the plantation and how much you let outside noise get to you. Personally, I couldn't give a damn and would probably roll over in bed and feel sorry for the loggers, skiddies and truck drivers who had been up since 3.00am.

So, I would be looking at the land, looking at where the forest was, looking at where the sun rose and set both winter and summer, projecting that forward (depending on how big the trees are now) and working out if this was going to leave me in constant shade in 10 years time. If it was I would pass up on it.

And good on you for doing your due diligence - too many people don't bother and then complain about the forest, piggery, chook farm, dairy farm........ buggering up their country lifestyle.

Cheers,
Ronnie

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07 Jul 2018 22:13 #540846 by Hawkspur

Our neighbour's house was less than 50m from the operating harvester and earthmoving equipment so they couldn't exactly go back to sleep.

If the forest is large, harvesting can take some time and significantly affect traffic. How wide are the roads and can you pass a truck and trailer safely?

Also, what are the potential runoff areas? www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/9512676...last-weekends-deluge

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08 Jul 2018 00:35 #540848 by BlueApple

That's really helpful to know. We're not at all knowledgeable when it comes to farming or plantation practices, so knowing that is very reassuring.

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08 Jul 2018 00:41 #540849 by BlueApple

Hi Ronnie,

Thanks for your input, I think our biggest concern was chemicals. I checked on google earth and it looks like the sun will be fine since the forest is behind the house and the house is facing north, northeast. I looked at the sun throughout the year and it looks like the property gets light all year. But it also looks like the trees are at most 10 years old. So I will need to somehow calculate if the trees will be in the way of the sun at any point...

Any idea if Radiata Pine forest attract more sandflies? There are quiet a few sand flies on the property at the moment, but the land has not been taken care of at all and is full of reeds and high grass, and there is also an area where water collects , it use to be a stream but is now more of a creek. Would cutting all the grass and making the stream run help with that?

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08 Jul 2018 00:43 #540850 by BlueApple

There is a specific road they use to up into the plantation, so they won't be passing in front of the property. The road is on the other end about 600 meters away. I expect them to use the road, but they just replanted the entire property, so there won't be any logging directly in the area for maybe another 15 to 20 years. Actually, I'm not even sure how long it takes for them to go from small tree to being harvested... 30 years?

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08 Jul 2018 00:44 #540851 by BlueApple

Did you have any issues with sand flies? I'm worried the pine trees attract sand flies as there are some on the property already, but then again the grass is very high and not maintained and there is stagnant water where there used to be a stream.

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08 Jul 2018 14:51 #540864 by LongRidge

I've had far fewer problems with sanflies and mosquitos when I have been in the local pine forests than when I.ve been on the pasture, especially in the paddocks near the stream. There are always hugely more insects in the country than in the town, though.

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09 Jul 2018 22:13 #540893 by Belle Bosse

Hi BlueApple,

Good to see lots of questions!! I shall endeavour to answer some of them as briefly as possible.
I've been living in 5 acres of Monterey pines or Pinus Radiata for 3 years now. We have had to learn a bit about living with them and owning them in the last 7 years. The pines are about 26 years old. Our property has pine, native bush and pasture.

Some light reading for you that should fill in the management questions. www.fao.org/3/a-i3274e.pdf

No sand flies in our pines... they are down the paddocks especially near the wetland gully and orchard.
No sand flies around the creek pines either. (I have a sand-fly allergy, so long sleeves and pants when I go where they are).
Plenty mosquitoes though. Adding screens to the windows takes care of the mosquito problem... also, any standing water is mosquito breeding site... empty standing water where possible.

Pine age for harvesting... 25 to 30 years.
Pine market prices: sound fantastic but not so good in reality after numerous deductions taken out. Sometimes not worth the bother of harvesting. Smaller isolated blocks are more likely to be overlooked by forestry harvesters who generally focus on the large blocks.

Forestry Rights:
This may not apply to you, but if there are acres of pine plantation on a property that you are looking at buying, check what the Forestry Rights are. Sometimes the land is for sale, but the trees are not.
When we bought, the 5 acres of pine trees were included in the sale, but there was a bit of hassle with the transfer of ownership of the trees when the deed was going through.

Pine nuisances:
Pollen:
Pine pollen is plentiful roughly August - September each year. It coats everything yellow. A bit sticky on surfaces. Soapy water used for removal.

Seeds:
Only when pines reach maturity do they drop seed cones. Cones open when dry or with heat to release seed. If patient, the pine seed makes a nice pine flavoured snack similar to pine kernels. The husk is similar to the sunflower seed's... chewy but ok to eat.

Seedlings:
Occasional seedlings are found growing with potted plants or in the tank's gravel foundation. Easy to pull out when small. Pot up and grow your own Christmas trees for free... or for sale?

Pine sap:
Sap drips dried on the car's windscreen. Hard to remove with mineral turps. Easy to remove when natural Pure Gum Turpentine is used, as it is a natural solvent of pine sap.
Dried pine sap makes good fire starters.

Pine needles:
Constantly shedding, forms mats over things they fall on. Acidic, not good for steel work. Blocks drains in the car body, gets caught in windscreen wipers and gets under vehicle bonnet.
Fantastic source of pine needles when planting Blueberries... which need acidic soil conditions.

Falling branches:
Dead branches are fragile. Will break and fall onto what ever is beneath them. Green branches can break off during heavy winds.

Falling trees and large branches:
Strong winds/ bad storms can fell whole trees. In clay, root system is wide rather than deep. Trunks are fragile enough to be snapped off at 5 to 10m height. Tops easily snapped out of trees, drop like spears or can be left hanging caught in branches of near by trees... dangerous.! It is amazing watching how far the trees sway in strong winds. For safety in stormy conditions, husband has felled all the trees within striking distance of our caravan. Some trees are around 40+m tall.

Possums:
They love eating the pollen heads and come out of the bush specially for the pollen. Possum traps are kept busy with the pollen flush. The pollen is edible.

Fire:
The biggest hazard of pine plantations

Noise:
Tree harvest 1 to 2 km away, I only heard peeping and tooting, rarely heard chainsaw, could hear the log hauler on occasion. Noisiest was big rock breaking digger in private quarry opposite our home driveway for several weeks while building access roads prior to harvesting.
Occasionally hear peeping and tooting and chainsaw noise from pine harvest 5 km away.

Trucks:
Heavy loads chewed up the clay based gravel road. It became a challenge for the car in places. Forestry trucks had 40 km /hr limit on the gravel road and radio check-in points along the way. Earliest truck of the day; 5am. The log truck drivers were excellent.
When travelling on a narrow gravel road with many blind corners, slow down, keep to your side and expect to meet a truck at every corner. I have no desire to become a bonnet ornament on a log truck, empty or loaded, so I pulled over whenever a truck was sighted and gave them the road... Heavily loaded trucks are so much harder to stop than a car.

Dust:
Catching up with a loaded log truck means running into a dust cloud that never fully disperses, a usual indication there is a vehicle somewhere ahead. Best to hang back at that stage, as any closer, you can get into a "white out" situation and only see the faint outline of the trailer end when you've almost run into it...

Chemicals:
None used on our 5 acres of pine, or on our property. That was something we checked for before buying.

Pine Harvest Nuisances:
Fences:
Our neighbour who recently harvested his pines found the forestry guys were not too particular at where the trees dropped. Result: broken fences on the rear half of their farm and cattle "free ranging" as they choose. Logging has created lot of unexpected work with re-fencing, as well as the mess to clean up in the plantation area and a huge pile of "reject" logs stacked really high to deal with. I don't know how they will get those logs down to clear them...

Pigs:
Pine forest harvesting seems to have displaced the wild pigs around here. Pigs from the forests 2 and 5 km away from us seem to have moved into our native bush and pines and are having party time at night ripping up our back paddocks. Council only has a couple pig traps and a long waiting list to borrow them. Husband's trap still needs two days work on it to finish it. We don't want pig hunters and dogs on our property.

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